Should EVERY Film Be Given 5 Stars?

In this episode, Aaron asks Sam some simple questions: Should we always rate films 5 stars even if we don't enjoy them? Is rating films lower unethical? Does not enjoying someone's work make you a bad person?? And Sam was flabbergasted...

We release a brand new episode every Thursday, so remember to follow and rate us on your favourite podcast site so you don't miss a single one! 

Also, follow us on Bluesky, TikTok, and Letterboxd and let us know what you think of today's debate!

Transcript

0:00

Yeah, I like that she started. Action! Welcome, everybody, to episode five of The Hollywood Scarlet. We are five weeks in. It's not crazy. Oh, wow, I didn't oh, I oh, yeah. Because. Episode four. Yeah. Episode four releases for us in two days. Yeah. Hopefully you guys enjoy that. We won't know until after the fact, but there we are. And, for a little bit of context, my name is Aaron. I am your director for this episode, and I'm joined by talent. Yes. Oh, Sam. Sorry. Go. I thought you were going to introduce me. Sorry. Okay. Spin it. We literally just said off camera. He's been a couple of weeks since we've done this. Yeah, camera as well. Off camera. You're always obsessed with the camera. No, but it's a film podcast, so it's like we're off camera. You just highlighting the fact that we don't film? No. But like, I feel I so I feel as a film term like if you're off camera, like you saying stuff off camera, films don't have sound, films don't have sound. No. But yeah I it's we film podcast. But I don't think that was so out there for me to say. Anyway, it's beginning to look a lot like the way it was. First of all, before we get into the, the calamity that was episode three and Sam's name, that was two episodes ago. My well, get over it. As Sam said, we are a film podcast. We talk about films because we love film. You listen because you love film. And that's basically what we do. And, we are we do have a topic that we were always going to, but first of all, we have a segment called that was more general. Did you like it? I did, I thought you were wanting me to say it then because I was like, no, no, I'm the director for now. I know, yeah, but, I'm just I'm throwing off by merely announcing myself. So I let you say your name. Why is that? By a lot and I. Right. Okay. Right. Let's cut. Oh, on. I don't get to say. Oh, that's my thing on talent. Right. Okay. Sorry. God. You know what? Talent. Nowadays I just want to rule the productions. You know, like when Christian Bale was screaming at that guy. So the segment that we do every week is called the Weekly Rushes, which Sam. I asked the question, have you watched any films this week? Karen I have always yes, I have watched films, I watched films Danny Jones is one I'm a celeb. So I am now free in the evenings to watch films. We'll talk about the one that we watch together on a weekly date night. We did. We were meant to go watch Godzilla minus one. I was really excited for that. And I get, I get a text from hammer saying, when you get to the, the car park, I don't pay what you pay when you leave. So I can't help it. And he comes up and he's like, they've canceled the film. I was like, what do you mean they've canceled the film? He goes, they couldn't download it in time. It's it's on net. I said, I don't run a film. It is ridiculous. Like because you can download it, which I thought we bought the tickets like two weeks ahead of time. Oh, we knew about this a while ago. Yeah, an hour and a half. Two hours before it was meant to go on. They were like, oh, we we can't download it in time. That's crazy. What were you doing before you had like three weeks to download it and it's on Netflix. Just just plucky streaming. Just just plug your laptop into the projector. I don't care. We paid our money and and I said, I've never been to that cinema before. And apparently it's good. It plays a lot of like arthouse kind of films. So I was excited to see it like, and it was a the black and white version as well. So yeah, I'm, I'm really excited to see it. So we stood there in the car park, freezing cold, looking at different cinema showings for any film. 1 or 2 sold out everywhere. Wicked sold out. Conclave wasn't sold out though. We traveled to our nearest Odeon to watch that and my interest in the. Actually, I spoke to you about this about a couple of days afterwards. My rating slightly went up for it, your rating slightly went down for it? Yeah. What is the, what was the reason behind that? I mean, it's your weekly rushes. You can read it. I was in my mind, I thought, wow, you're the director. I thought this was your week. This is not yours. I'm throwing you off. My rating went down, I think, because I think it was one twist too many. Okay, that's basically the conclusion I came away with. Like, I liked where we got to. I don't know how much to spoil. It's still in cinema so I probably wouldn't. Yeah. Okay. But we got you get to a certain point and you're like okay this is what the film has been leading to. Yes. Which will make a lot of sense if you know what the film's about. And then I was like, okay, cool, I'm happy here. And then it did another twist and I was just like, it's too many now. They I see now that you've said that, I get your point cos I'm rewatching it in my head. And don't get me wrong that it's difficult talking about a film still in cinema. Well, you can I don't want to spoil anything because it is so obviously for those that don't know, essentially the film is the Pope dies and they've got to elect a new pope. Yeah, it's a very, very slimmed down version of what the film is about. But when I read about it, apparently, like the the process that they show in the film is so accurate, what actually happens, because no one ever really knows what happens because it's rooted in secrecy. Well, and they really show that in the film, anything that could leak or anything like that straight on it, you know, I mean, there was like a sequence where they blocked the windows because the vibrations against the windows of the speech. Yeah. Could be taken. That's crazy. Like, what do you mean, party? So I guess it's the it's the Pope. Do you, me, I and so and so obviously. But. And Ralph. Fine. Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow incredible performances are all great. Everyone in that film was absolutely brilliant. And there's a pope in there that obviously comes over from, you know, a country that not a pope. And I'm sorry. Yes. Apologies. Yeah. An archbishop comes over from a country that doesn't, Yeah. Everyone's got a pipe and an English got power. Just got Pope. Anyway, from a country that doesn't necessarily have Catholic capitalism. Catholicism. The furthest ism in Folsom they came from, was Iraq or Afghanistan. I think it was. Yeah. He was like a. Yeah, he was an archbishop brother. That was his first, movie role. Was it really which he was astounded me. Yeah. He was like the the emotional core of the film. Yeah. You you had people that were brass, brazen. Yeah. People that were British analysts. Yeah, obviously. Which is quite a core theme of the film. And then obviously you have Ralph Fiennes, who's just Ralph Fiennes just wants to go home. Does he just what's the actor know? The. Yeah. The character. He just wants to elect a new pope and go. And then as the film transitions and becomes more of a who. Okay, this is where we're going. It really does open up to a lot of conversation. I think, within, you know, follow the film. Why do I Mike Tyson impression of Catholicism, who can punch you? Although he fought Jake Paul and that didn't go well. Was it Chris Eubank? Chris Eubank as well, I don't know. Would you like to, sweetie? That one? Yeah, that was great. Gave that it. So yes, I think, a follow us on letterbox. You see our reviews, any film that we go watch at the cinema, you'll see our reviews pretty much straight afterwards. And I think we both gave it a three and a half a off. We agreed in the end, because I think you were full right after, you were three. I was four. We sent a lot of the same things, though. We did. It was just interesting that you went lower. Yeah, I think, I don't know, I was just, I really to see Godzilla, I mean. Yes. And then you go watch a two hour film with someone on the net lecturing a pope. It's a bit different, but also something we haven't mentioned. The director of conclave was the director of All Quiet on the Western Front. All quiet on the Western Front. Now, for all the you that have seen it out there, well done. Because it is great, all of you that haven't seen it out there. Well, now I know how you feel when Aaron says to me, have you seen that film when I say no, because I'm like, how dare you? You need to watch this film. It is brilliant. All quiet on the Western Front. And for those who are obviously familiar with the director's work, you will know his use of orchestra in the film with all quiets pretty much mirrors how he uses it in conclave. When there's a sharpness of the, violin or orchestra, you're like, oh, something's happening. And he does it so well and all quiet, and he does it so well in conclave. So it's obviously a director, composer kind of relationship because it's I'm sure they're the same and it works. And I also need to watch All Quiet on the Western Front. Yes you do, but like it's Christmasy vibes. I mean yet no Christmas Eve. I'm not worried about Christmas. No. Yeah it was overall it was a it was a good film. Yes. Good film I think. Interesting. Whether you are religious or not. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we're watching it from a different perspective, I guess. From. Yeah, from someone who, you know, is. Yeah. I guess I think the thing about it is that all kind of faiths and walks of life can watch it and you both, everyone gets a different feeling from it and I, I quite like that. So I just love cinema. That's it. Yeah. Well cut. Oh sorry. That's the second time you tried set my conscience. Yeah. All day on these talent nowadays. Yeah. Also on the writer, director, actor fucking Uhler a lot. Did you put on your IMDb page? I don't have one. I do, I know you do. That means fuck all. Although I've changed my letterbox bio. Have you added your top four to it? I have added my top four, and it is the actual top four. When you say the actual like, you mean the second one. Yeah. So, like but like, my, my bio is, the one with hair in Hollywood. Scarlett. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, because they can see that. Well, well, when we start, you know, promoting more. Tick tock. I don't know what the result is. I really hope that when we do that, you keep the mustache. Oh, yeah. That's something where because we, we wanted to do, like a silhouette didn't we have, like, our heads in our faces. Yeah. Yeah. You would be the hair in the mustache. Oh. I'll have to keep it now. You were. Do you recorded it? It was live on the internet. This joke. No, no, I told him nothing. I got you back on wingman and I told him nothing. Another film that I watch as well. Just quickly. It was. It is Christmas. Sorry, just a quick segway off of the film. I was driving over here today. Okay. Two of my favorite Christmas songs came on the radio. Number two, Felice Navidad. Banger tune, banger tune. And number one, I wish you could be Christmas every day. It is my favorite Christmas in four times. No, I'm not basic. It is a great song. It is so good that I actually missed my turn in coming into your estate because I thought, you know what? I'm going to drive in today without a satnav. I know where you live and I completely missed the turn because I was just screaming at the star mad brings. Oh no. So I'll often go around the roundabout. And just for listeners that was not artificially edited, that was actually that was me. That wasn't the 1972 version or song. That was me. The editor did not pick that up. I was driving, so I was driving over and, I was thinking to myself, I don't actually know what I was going to talk about today. Yeah, I've kept it completely quiet because I wanted to kind of catch you off guard with the topic. It is a that worked well for the quiz and the first one that I offer. Yeah. I do not do well. Why? What my what what if I told you that I work well under pressure? Have I shown you any traits? Come back to the weekly rushes before I baffle you with that topic, I went to watch We Live in Time. Oh, I've watched a lot of films, but that one is like one that I was very excited about because it's got two of my favorite actors working at the moment who had phenomenal chemistry in interviews. Did you see the in a day it yeah. Did you? Yeah, I feel like Andrew Garfield just has amazing chemistry with anyone. Yeah. He can genuinely make anybody feel like at the center of the universe. I feel like he's just released an interview with Ryan Reynolds on our actors on. I says, yeah, I'm very excited to watch. Like, I have seen some clips. Yes. That's probably what I'll be doing tonight. Is that watching it earlier? Yay, Andrew. But yeah, like the film was beautiful and heartbreaking and god damn, I keep watching love stories that just came break me. I was like, why am I keep watching all this crap? But no, it wasn't crap. It was a very, very good film. Very gorgeous. Yeah, I could I could just tell by the trailer I'm like, oh, this is going to hurt me. It does, it does. It's a lot of people have been criticizing it for being cliche, which like, I feel like there's only so many varieties of a love story you can tell before you kind of go, okay, well, we've seen it. Yeah. I think the way it tries to tell it is interesting. Okay. It tries to do it from a new angle. Okay. That's one way because I want to spoil it, but it's very good I enjoyed it. Very good time. Yeah. Just for audience on time as well. If you laugh in the cinema during the sex scene when you fuck off, grow up, the amount of people who have been like talking about their experiences watching that film and how people would be giggling whenever, Florence Pugh and and you start again getting going, it's just like, oh my God. Come on. Yeah. Yes. I, I agree, it's just like, just grow up. Just get people can be naked, all right? People have bodies on clothes. Jesus Christ, what what? Dun dun dun I don't know, I think yeah, for explicit on this episode. My word. I didn't say such smut. We swear all the time I do anyway. Oh, yeah, we do. Yeah. But fun fact about the the romance scenes in that the, there was a scene and I know we've seen it is in the movie. You could tell where the two actors got so caught up in what they were doing that they didn't hear, and they went for ages and they didn't realize until they looked up and the dop and the sound guy were facing the wall. Just everything was like. And like they were just like, oh, okay. I just, I like the way they can just switch off after such an intimate scene, like. Okay. Yeah, well, apparently the, the kind of the humor that they got from that removed any awkwardness of the rest of the scene. So I think it was good. I think it was, actually a helpful thing. We've spent a long time weekly rushes. So, yes. You wanted to talk about a film that you've seen, which is going to lead us nicely into the this week's topic. So tell me what film you've watched. Well, I watched the film on Netflix called Christmas on Women. Why? Oh God, I can't even get through the title of the film. Basically, it follows every trait of a hallmark film. Yeah, a parent is dead. One of them is dead. That's just what happens. You. You know, it's what mum would have wanted kind of thing. And, Oh, I can't I can't stop laughing at it. Nan is selling the windmill. Inside the windmill. They do a lot of woodwork, obviously, like the community. And, you know, they make little toys for kids or whatever, basically. And and, lo and behold, you'll never guess who the buyer of the women was going to be. Well, it's only an ex from out of the big city, and this big city ex-boyfriend who they want you to believe that these characters are the same age, even though he's very clearly a good looking man in his mid 40s, and she's very clearly a good looking woman in her mid 20s. But they went to prom together 20 years ago and there was a misunderstanding. Oh no. And he ditched her. And they've never spoken since. Yet he comes back into town. They fall in love. I've always loved you, even though they've not seen each other for 20 years. So we are a podcast. We are a podcast that promotes positivity and we don't want to. Yeah, I want to dwell on the negatives because there's too much of that in this world. So what I will say is it's funny, it might. If you want a film that is an hour and 20 minutes, but you're like, you know what? I wish it feels like two hours. Apple watch it, go Apple Watch. I've watched the film now. It's it's it's your trademark hallmark it trademark hallmark film, which is what's Christmas is about. Yeah it's it's it it honestly I agree I think like the hallmark Christmas films are one of the best things about Christmas. They are so fun. Just don't take them seriously. And you have such a good time. And this is kind of where we're going to segue into the topic I want to talk about, because I feel like I, I watch, so I watched the film recently called Meet Me Next Christmas, and the film is about, a woman and a guy they meet in an airport on Christmas Eve because their flight's both delayed, and unfortunately, they're not in a position to get together. But they had, like, they connected immediately. So he says to her, okay, there's a concert next year because he always, she always goes to this concert. I will buy tickets to that if you are available, if you're single, if you're available, meet me there next Christmas Eve. And that's concept to the film I loved it I, I genuinely that's right. It five stars because I just thought it was the perfect hallmark Christmas film. It was produced by Netflix. It was released this year, actually, I'd highly recommend, but I went on letterbox and people were trashing it right where everybody was just talking about all of the flaws of it. And I feel like if you go into these kind of films and you point out their flaws, you're missing the point. Yeah, because of course they have flaws. Yeah, they're stupid. Like it's the feel good crap. Yeah, that's exactly it. It is. It's a hallmark way of Christmas. Hey, you see what it. They're they're not cinematic masterpieces. They're not. You know, it's the same acts are pretty much in the same film. Lindsay Lohan at the same time. Yeah. She's this guy. He's he's the main he's he's in gossip off his now. He's in Gossip Girl. He was in A Cinderella Story. He plays like the main character. So it was very big in two fact mid 2000. Right. But you look at his IMDb since then and it's hallmark home. Michael McCormack Christmas. And I don't doubt there's probably quite a lot of money in there because you know, I mean it's good works. Continue working on a soap. And he probably plays the same character in every film. So yeah, but I, I love him, I really do. But this kind of brings me on to the topic. So today's topic is going to be a bit more of a debate about okay, okay. And because this we don't always do game shows, we don't always do kind of mess around episodes. We also want to talk about things in the film industry and talk about things that other people are talking about. So this actually originated for me partially from Booktok and then partially from Max. Okay. Very strange combination, but I'll make sense. Okay. Booktok if you don't know, is is TikTok for books? It's why people who are readers and their review books might not. And there was a conversation happening on book tap a book talk, sorry, where people were saying it's disrespectful to rate books below three stars. Okay, okay, now I pad this with Tom Hanks. His last meal episode, which we haven't watched Last Meals on YouTube. It's great, I love it. And he he was asked at one point, what is your least favorite project you've worked on? And he said, I'm not going to say that because it disregards the hard work that everybody put in. Yeah, there were people on there who worked very hard. They obviously had a lot of passion, etc., etc. but here's my question. Is it disrespectful to rate movies like, see? No. Okay. I don't think so. I think it's disrespectful to parasite. I think, I mean, I think I have every right to not like a piece of work. That's not to say that you're not going to like the piece of work, but I won't ever write anything low and say, you shouldn't watch this because this is awful. I will write it and say, I didn't like this film. Yeah. And I think that I will only I won't ever. Because you got to experience, you have to form your own opinion of things like you can't just base yourself that films got 5% on Rotten Tomatoes, so I'm not going to watch that. But that's exactly what people do know. And I know and I know that. But I just if anything I will say I oh yeah, okay. That is 5% on Rotten Tomatoes. You know what I mean? Okay. Yeah. Fair enough, that is. But other things I will like, and I might like it. It's just it's a very personal thing. Ratings for me. I go by what I like. We we kind of ask the question then of what's the point of ratings? Because if, like, if we're supposed to, by the way, I'm playing devil's advocate this whole one. Yeah. If we're supposed to look at these ratings and know whether or not something is worth the time, especially in today's climate where, like, everything wants our attention, what's the point in the ratings if we're just going to disregard them anyway? I do think that I do think there has to be some sort of influence. In a way. I I'll use Borderlands as an example because because I've obviously I've not seen it. I can't say I had any intention to want to see it. But then you hear stories of he he wrote, The Last of Us, I think maybe, the screenwriter from The Last of Us teaser offers it. No it's not. No, but that's the director. He. So who who adapted it to from who adapted The Last of Us to screen wrote Borderlands and Eli Roth kind of came in, wanted to completely do what he wanted Eli Roth to do with it, and he wanted then the writer wanted to take his off the projects. But I think he's still technically on the project. And then you see, obviously, you see reviews of it is like, borderland fans don't like it. I think just general film fans just don't like it. Now that, I won't be lying if I said that doesn't put me off, because ratings obviously do have they obviously do have some form of influence on whether you want to watch it or not, but I guess I'm never I want to see it. Part of me wants to see it because of how bad can it be? Do you know what I mean? Like, can it be that bad? I've seen clips. It looks. Yeah, rendus. But also you're adapting a, a piece of source material that means a lot to people. Borderlands means a lot to a lot of people. There's. I don't doubt that there is some, you know, some fandom of of Borderlands out there. It's quite an iconic game and it's been out for years. So you've got to try and cater to those fans. And obviously if you've not done that and you've just done what you think you want Borderlands to be, that's a bit disrespectful. Is it? Because then, you know, we've we've brought this up before, like how Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, the way the, the web shooters, organic web shooters, for example, was such a huge change on was the Spider-Man character like, but then we've also spoke about it with Joker. You haven't seen Joker two, but no, but like I think I've said previously, that has to be this, this base understanding and respect for the character. And you can adapt certain things. But yeah, you have to understand. Yeah. Like the organic web shooters. Okay. Was I don't doubt probably 2002 or 2001 where it was being filmed, whether controversial. But I think his adaptation of Spider-Man wasn't it was faithful to Peter Parker being, you know, just nerd who, you know, Mary Jane and the Radioactive spider, and he's playing like, you know, he's human spider in the in the yeah cage match with Randy Savage. And then, you know, he makes his own Spider-Man costume, and then he starts that adaptation of Spider-Man is Spyfall. And I think the way he directed it is. Well, he directed it almost like a comic book coming to life with the style. And he obviously has some right museums in there, especially Spider-Man two with the, scene in the surgery, polio. So he I think he had an understand what the source material. I think he at least respected that. I think that's the big thing. You have to respect half the show respect to what you're doing. That was kind of a segue. I think the original question was, what's the point of ratings? Oh, yeah, I went off on one. He did, I did, yeah. Typical. Typical Sam there. Yeah. Sorry. Were you brought Borderlands? Like, where were you taking that? You started talking about adaptations and faithfulness and respect. Yes. And it seems quite evident that Borderlands hasn't done that. And obviously and that film got reviewed very poorly. I think probably because of that be it probably also was very good film either. But there's also the fact of who the director was and Eli. Yes. He's a very well. Yeah. Okay. He, he's very interesting director. I think you nice. I mean, I think the first hostel was not bad. It's him as a person at the moment. Yeah, that's I think that's the major issue that people have is not a good person. I think he's great in Inglorious Bastards. He was not. But I'm not going to I don't also, I won't be lying if I said that. Yes, the reviews have swiped me somewhat to go. Whoo! Okay, I'm not sure I will want to watch it. However, I do want to form my own opinion of it. Yeah, I do, I do, and I will watch it and I probably won't like it, but I'll decide that. So then if you see a film that you think is bad, you got no qualms with, like saying nice one star. Oh, so I will one. You have to, because it's also every duty. No, but I will, because that's I think that's it's a reflection on me in a way, isn't it? Because obviously you can look at my letter box one stars and be like, oh, he doesn't like this film. Why? That's conversation. I don't think I'll ever say to you, this film that I've rated one star I don't watch that is awful like you, do you? You got a very unique outlook. I think the one on everybody should make their own opinion. But like, I think one of two things happens when when something gets a bad rating like other the Madame Web Effect and Morbius effect happens. Oh yeah. Well everybody wants to watch it. Especially what happened with Morbius. Hysterical how the studio tried to rerelease it, and if you got even, it did not. Yeah, it did not do any. Well, yeah. Or people avoid it completely and they just don't bother with it. I feel like you need to be around the year and a half three star for that to happen. Yeah. If you're like one star, it's almost like a car crash. People want to go and see it. Yeah, wait. But not everybody will have the opinion of I want to watch that. And for my own opinion, people will. Just because, like I said earlier, like the culture we live in and how much advice for our attention, they would just ignore it. And the effect of that is things get canceled. For example, acolyte I, there's a TV series, but any Star Wars thing obviously mainly happens with TV series. Yeah, but people rating it low results in cancellations. Yes. Yeah. Because end of the day money talks, mad money talks. And those reviews will hinder many money coming into many pockets of studios. And I guess it depends on how the studios react to that. Like rereleasing you worst reviewed film because of a couple of internet memes, and that's exactly why they did it. The internet caught on, but what they didn't realize is the internet is stupid. This is Morbius. Yeah, Morbius is that. Oh yeah. Cup of the film. Because, Matt Smith's dancing topless and whatever he's doing in that scene, that's it. That's that's a 32nd scene. It's a two hour film. And there was a madam. There was a madam web kind of scene going around what people, you know, and there was a comment, and this is something that is big with Twitter or X or whatever is. And madam, where for example, I think they were in a diner. I've not personally seen the film, but that clip, they're in a diner and I think the directing is like he's on like the the ceiling. And then he kind of the camera kind of flips and then all of a sudden Lucky's that, I don't know, it looked good. I'm not gonna lie. It looked great. And people and then the comment was and people said Madame Webb was bad question mark. Question mark, because of that 1/22 genuinely good British cinema. Not it's a two hour film. Yeah. I mean that's a that's a different conversation. Yes. It's the effect that TikTok has on film. Yeah. Which is, which is probably a whole fucking episode that I would say you just clip it, you just you can clip you can clip any, anything from any film go, yeah, look at this is great. Yeah. Probably it's. Yeah. But there are, there's like an hour before that. An hour after that. Yeah. It is. Might not be good I don't know. Rob is an interesting one because like Sydney Sweeney was talking about how even though that film was completely flopped, it helped her be able to make immaculate and anyone but you. Yeah. So I guess it kind of goes into the next thing of, of why it could be seen as disrespectful, because it's not just the top level brass that work on films. So, for example, I have worked on a feature film, humblebrag, which has been released on Prime and currently on IMDb, sits at like 3.8 out of ten. It's not a great score, but I was there throughout the entire production. I knew what that production was. I knew how hard everybody worked. I knew how much. Everybody just had this love of film. And then to see it get that score, yeah, you know, it was, it was it was crazy. It was like it was such a, lack of cohesion between that because I think sometimes when you're making a film, you just think you're not thinking about the end of it. And these two. Link. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So the disrespectful part is like when you write something low, you could potentially be stopping people getting work. Yes. Yeah. A lot of people you read I think you do read like a lot of crew in the director's crew. They can't, you know, like I think it hits directors a bit more because I think, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Because actors obviously could maybe reinvent themselves to do something else or whatever. Directors. Yeah. As you say, it's like the direct one bad film and then that's it. Their name will forever be synonymous with that. You know, Madame Webb, for example. I don't know who directed it. I can't have top of my head, but I don't know, maybe they'll get, like, TV show work, you know, like Chicago PD or something like that. You tend. No, but like, you tend to see that happens. They go into, like, serial work. You said it like it was bad. It made me laugh. I don't think it was. Oh, I don't think it's bad at all, but, like, it's not feature length. It was a woman. Who? The writer, Madame Webb. Interesting. She's done a lot of TV shows beforehand. Anyway, I did Jessica Jones, she did The Defenders. She's done collateral succession scenes with like, yes, sir. So that's for me. It's like, I don't, I obviously I don't know what's next. I dunno if she's got anything in the pipeline or anything, but it doesn't look like it, which is a shame. But that's kind of the point. Like she seem to have a really good career up until that, because you'd worked on on the house and she'd worked on Dexter and she'd worked on all of these Marvel shows, and then, yes, Madame Web, a Sony Spider-Man universe film in which, like everybody knows, Sony's as a as a studio as interference is horrendous. Yes. Yeah. So like that's another topic I love that kind of works in that. Yeah. Because like if a studio is interfered to the point where the film is now bad and then everyone else below is being punished because of these poor ratings. I think if you're a film audience, you know, like ourselves, we, I think can decipher and know or this. Yeah, I wonder how much the production got involved and stuff. I know I think we do a little bit. I think because we like, I think we keep an eye on a lot of film, like I think one why why I say that is because obviously I follow so much film news and I follow a lot of stuff within that film. News comes reshoots comes test, test audiences comes this comes back in hit test audiences. Yes, I know, but I guess that's the only real way you can kind of see if it's, oh, if you've put a lot of money into it, maybe that's the only way you can kind of like go, okay, this is ready for even though there was a Looney Tunes film that got great test audience scores, they got rid of it. I go, let's go back, go back, woman. Go back now. Yeah, back, go back. Go. Yeah, yeah, that one as well. Yeah. So and the directors went on to do Bad Boys for life. Yeah. Which you know got caught actually got quite well reviewed. So. But I'll keep an eye on that kind of stuff. I like to look at that. And obviously if you see a film that's going through extensive reshoots, test audiences are done bad. So they want to kind of rewrite it all. They've put on a new writer for the film, like, oh, right, it's too many. It's too many cooks. Now, obviously, if the studio obviously want this, but the director or the writer is not available any more happened with Rogue One. I went through quite a few reshoots, and there's a couple of scenes in that film that are completely directed by another someone else, but he's not credited in the film. So obviously Gareth Edwards is he's the director of Rogue One, but there are quite a few significant sequences in that film that are not directed by him. And I think studio interference is I hate it. I hate your passion, but you're only going to get that, I think with your Paramount's with you, Warner Brothers. Yeah. Would you big a I think you I think you companies like Blumhouse maybe I like all A24 especially this their original and I think they allow more creative freedom in what you're what you want to tell. Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't use Word Original for Blumhouse at the moment. Oh no. Maybe not at the moment, no. Okay. Yeah. Apparently at the moment, yeah. But like, I don't think you're representative of the general moviegoing audience because, like, me and you have a board line obsession with movies and the movie industry. Borderline. It's been nice. It's been very nice. Yes. Like we're doing a film podcast. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. There you go. I kind of feel like the general audience, they may just turn to a film and that's kind of, you know, last time they see it. Yeah, I think that's what I saw there. That's what I think I was trying to get out is that I think from my eyes I can pretty much I can maybe tell oh, okay. Hold on. But from, you know, a general audience, like watching Madame Web, it's the worst film ever. Cast stuff like that. After that film, maybe a lot of people will switch off and go, oh, I'll never watch that again. I like to look into it, go, oh, why was that film so poorly done? You know, a lot of the dubbing, for example, in Madame Web, I've not again, not see it. I've seen clips and I've seen enough to go, oh, that's a support dub. It and I like. And then you go, you go into a bit of a wormhole of like, oh, okay, Dakota Johnson, you know, did this, you know, she, she didn't exactly promote the film very well, but also, I think she did, because I think she did it. I think she did today. Yeah. And then obviously and then I like to, like, read up a bit more on on that. And you know, I'd love, I'd encourage a lot more people to do that if you, if you come out of a film and you're like, well, I didn't enjoy that. Yeah, I have a look into it. Maybe, you know, maybe it's not how I I'll use suicide Squad as an example as well, because David Ayers very much wants his cut to be released. Yeah. Released the Ayer cut released by a cut. And that intrigues me in a way, because I wonder how different it is, how much the studio did interfere with that film. Because you saw it with Justice League, it got rewritten, obviously Supreme. It was all this colorful flash was a goofball. It's it's the argument of, is I just saying that because his reputation was borderline tarnished and he saw the success of what happened with Snyder, even Snyder went for reshoots after the release. The court. Oh, yeah. So it wasn't even like his court was ready. No, but I think they must have. They I think they allowed him to at least finish it. Yeah. Yeah, I think he did. Director's cut. So interesting. But again, another topic. Another topic indeed. What about you though. So you see a film I mean devil's advocate. No, but I would like to hear your opinion and the reason why I wanted to bring this up or bring it to you is because it's a topic for a later episode. But I'm going to bring this now. Okay? Is that your you quite famously do not like Blade Runner famous famously within this house. Ridley Scott who is I don't know, but you're this five star film that everyone tells you about that you didn't like, I didn't know. So from Let's Flip the switch then obviously, you know, you've seen one star films. It's not making you want to see it. If you see a film. Right five star. Are you going into that film thinking, I'm going to love this or are you going into it going, okay, let me, let me see. We kind of come into the kind of my conclusion of the episode. Okay, well, I'll bring it up now because it's cool with it. How I approach, how I review things. So the way that I will do it is if I don't like a film, but I and I know the reason, it's just not for me, then I'll say that that's my review, and I won't necessarily knock it real far down, because I'll try and look at the filmmaking artistry and all that, or that highlighted other stuff, and then try and kind of boost up off the back of that because sometimes there are films which just don't hit as hard for me. Like Ladybird, Ladybird is a great film. It's like an Oscar winning film, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, we just didn't hear as hard for me, and that's because it's about a mother's relationship with her daughter and and a woman's coming of age. I'm a guy, you know? That's just not going to. His heart answered. Yeah, yeah. Answered. But in terms of the the writing and the directing, it was obviously a magnificent piece of work. So I have to respect that. Blade Runner. The reason that I rate Blade Runner so low is because the character is infinitely this likable. Okay. And so I will rate it low on that, like a, like a one point and in kind of like a bit of a trigger warning here. At one point he very obviously essays a woman, but I'm not going to rate it somehow. And then what the fuck. No. Like and it's stuff like that where maybe I'm a bit harsher than other people because other people talk about Blade Runner as if it's this fucking magnificent piece of cinema, and no one mentions that. I've even seen reviews say, oh yeah, that happened. But we look past it. No, no, we fucking don't. But my point there is like, if there's something which I think is dangerous in a film, okay. And I saw the same in Joker two, I will then review it very low. That kind of thing is because I know the impact the cinema can have, and I know what it can do and what it can't do. And you know, we saw the effect with Joker one, like all of these, these people who came out of the woodwork come when there were like riots and shit. And I believe cinemas were saying like, if you're coming to see Joker, be careful. Yeah, that's crazy, but it's stuff like that where I would then review it because. Because I think that to I don't know if it makes sense here. It's more of a point of people need to know that or people should know that. Okay. The point I'm trying to make is I would only rate a film very low if I think it's very dangerous or bad, but if it's just a film that didn't hit as hard with me, I won't rate it low. I will literally go as low as a three star, okay? Because I think, like, I can appreciate everything else that was put into it. Yeah. Does that make any sense? I kind of went here, there and everywhere. No know I do. I completely appreciate completely get your point is yeah. Your we fall into some different themes and tropes obviously of cinema as you say, with like Blade Runner saying, you know what? That happens. Obviously people would look past that because as a technical mastery in the 80s, it's probably done a lot for sci fi. There's also the fact that in that time, not going to shit was normally a product of its approach. Yeah, exactly what it is. Yeah. And if you view the film like that as it's obviously as it's a product of its time, it's a completely different topic for another episode. It's definitely good. Like separating like the art from the artist kind of thing. Yeah, it's a debate. I think to have it does kind of feature into this in a way though, because, you know, like going back to Madame Web, the art from the artist that is, is inextricably linked to Dakota Johnson and the director, but it's the studio's fault. It should really be linked to the studio, and it is in the way people I mean, people already have opinions on Sony's Spider-Man. Yeah. You know, Craven's coming out in like three days. Oh. Is it? Yeah. Is it really it it was, you know, so like, people are kind of like. I mean, it looks all right, but it's a Sony Spider-Man venom film. So already people's expectations are very low. But it impacts the career of these two people because people have rated it low and people have come away very angry with it. Which then comes back to the question of should we be rating low? I should I still think, yes, I it's a good debate to have and I know I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed this debate because it well, it allows me to go off of tangents, which I love doing, but I just think you have to. I just think there has to be because you also learn from it. Maybe I like to think potentially, like if, you know, studios are looking at they've put all of this money, they're never going to learn Sony. But I'll use this as an example. I'll use what you said, an example. Obviously we've got this Sony villain streak going on. I mean, like Morbius. Yeah. Madame Web and I so. Oh, venom, venom, venom is an interesting one because it's I think he's already quite a well-established character and he's quite successful. I think obviously Morbius and Madame Web I don't think have been so. No, no they're not really known. But if you're reviewing that low and then Madame Web Low and Kraven the Hunter, the fact that you as you like you said it's come out in a couple of days and I didn't even know it. And we haven't seen any reviews for it. Was that not tell the studio you should change something because you need to do something different here. I do actually know a bit of info on that, which is very interesting. This completely beside the point and I fact check me to shit on this because I'm not 100% sure I saw it in the TikTok, apparently as part of Sony's deal to keep the Spider-Man character they need to produce. I think it's a least 3 or 4 Spider-Man films within three years or something like that. It's like they have to produce a certain amount of films in a certain period of time, which is why you get these villain spin offs, because they still count as Spider-Man films without having to do Spider-Man. Oh, just yeah, it's basically in their contract with Marvel for the Spider-Man, and then you review it partly then, because that's, that's that's not filmmaking. That's just that's a production filmmaking business. It's the business of cinema. I just feel sorry for any director that's going to park the director that signs on for it. You're signing on, you know, if you've got a nice healthy checkout record. I mean, yeah, you know, you know, I know we're not a football podcast, but you see, you kind of see it sometimes in like footballers, you go to like this much bigger team never play. And you're like, why on earth have they done that? I got a pretty check in their pocket. Your back pocket. You I mean, you know, you got players going to like Saudi Arabia and stuff like that. You know they're getting paid 1 million pound a week. So anyone that goes to like a marvel, you know, anyone that takes on the Marvel film. So I mean you're you're not directing it. You're just being told where to point the camera. Unless you're maybe the Russos, they've probably got a bit more free rein to do what they want, because I think the MCU might be. I would say it's a little bit different because you had like, the Eternals, the right? Totally. Chloe Zhao Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like she obviously was doing what she wants to do. James Gunn You had James Gunn, you also had I was forget his name, but the director of Black Panther, obviously he was doing some things it Roy Ryan. Yes. Oh Kroger. Could he create as well didn't they I think yes. Ryan Coogler who got. Yeah. Yeah. And then obviously Taika Waititi with Ragnarok. Yeah. Yeah. You can always tell because they do artistic things like camera movements and you're like, oh, that's new and different. Oh, okay. I get it now. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. But the Sony I think, I do think the Sony movies are a little bit different. I think they are what you said. Like this is what we want to do. These are the characters. This is the story. Do not deviate. Oh yeah. Yeah. You get very little artistic freedom I think with Sony ones in particular. I know we seem to focus a lot on Sony. It's because I think it's just because that issue. But yeah. Oh yeah, recent. But also like I can't think of any other studio interference as much as I think Sony. All right. Let's take away from studio interference and keep them with the same idea of like bad ratings. There was a film. Do you know you know, I asked, Ari Aster. Yes, he did Midsommar and, hereditary. Yeah. He also did the third film, which was not always afraid that that's the film that I won't talk about. Yeah. So that film like the reviews I've seen of it, it's basically a film for him. So we coming into these questions of the films that people make or themselves, it was obviously for no one but themselves. It's just like a thing that they've got in their head. They want to get out. Yeah. And then people kind of review that low. Is there like a respect thing in there of like, this is a very personal story. I guess it depends on who's right in it. Lo because I think if he's his name, obviously, and I think I displayed it quite clearly that Midsommar hereditary right there. I'm associating his name with those two films. So I think if you're going into another Ari Aster film, you're going to think, oh, this is what I'm going to get. Yeah. And I don't think people were afraid was that. But I don't think that's on him. I just think that's potentially on the audience putting too much expectation on, oh, I'm going to get another crazy mental horror film. And it wasn't I haven't seen it. I've not seen it. Okay. Phoenix in it isn't it. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently is a crazy film. Oh okay. Well in fairness not as horror but like. Yeah, crazy. Well, I think you're allowed 1 or 2 misses. Yeah. I mean, like, you're not going to. It's very rare to get that kind of filmography. No. Yeah. Is anyway, you know, like that's fair and then everything. It's because making films is a very personal process anyway, you know, like you have to go back to them for the writers and writers. They have to put something of themselves in there to connect with it and make it good. So is it when you write about their you almost personally insulting them? Is that even something you should consider in these, in these conundrums? I don't know, I guess I'll throw in all the questions, you know. Yeah, I know, I literally I drove over here, listed Christmas to the I don't know what he's going to I don't know what this topic is going to be yet. All of a sudden you're like, hey, some hard hitting questions on, And I hope I've made coherent sense in this episode, but I just think you are you are allowed to not like things, you know? I mean, you just are. But I think it should just be in the sense of it just wasn't. But me. I can respect. You know what it was a film like, you know, I'll use the substance, for example. Yeah. Okay. I liked the substance. It wasn't for me. I know you are like, that's what you talk for. It's what allowed you to me like that. I can respect why you like it. Because I know what you like and what the fuck. No, I know what you know. But I know your. I know what you like in terms of filmmaking. What you said. So you said I know what you like. Did you say that? Yeah. What was wrong? I thought you said I know what you are like. No, I don't know. You like. No, no, no. Look, you. I got a ton just for love. Like body parts, dad. Also. Jesus. No, no, no, I know what you like. And I know what you, in terms of, like, horror and body horror and stuff like that. And I know the substance did incredibly well and the performances were amazing. It just wasn't for me. It just wasn't. I still, I think I did. You offer six five star top four for you? I think it's like three star for me or three and a half star for me because of the performances, because of the technical. And I love the I love the score. Is there something you need to know about me? It's movie scores and there will be episodes coming. I feel like you've already made that. Like, oh, you did it in conclave and I love it. So I feel like I was allowed to rate that a little bit lower because I just came out of that going, oh, okay, cool. But I'm okay if I don't see it again. But I've not said to you throughout that whole thing, oh, that was crap. How why do you like that kind of thing? I haven't, you know, I respect why you like it and you've not come to me and gone. What the hell? Didn't you like that kind of thing? It's just. I just think you're allowed to not like things without attacking. Yeah, that's the thing that annoys me the most. It's just the attacking, the personal attacks. I think we're coming into a nice conclusion after all. Which is? It seems to be. Anyway, whatever your review is, make sure it's your truth. Yes. Yeah. And respect other people's opinions. Please. Like, literally please respect other people's opinions. I completely agree with that conclusion. Just if you like it, great. If you don't. Okay, yeah I see I think like my take from the to put it try and put it more rage by. That's why I hate rage. But I mean that's a whole fucking separate thing that kind of ties in with TikTok. Yeah. And like you see a lot in Twitter as well. Like how to like, I don't know, there's a film come out or something like that. I don't know how people like this film. It's like it's. Yeah, that. Yes, they do that statements. Why do people like this? Anyway, yeah. Sorry. We concluded quite nicely and I've just brought it back to I hate this to kind of hopefully succinctly put it with the rating, the rating of any movie, you can rate it low. Yeah, you can rate it high. Yeah. I think personally that there needs to be that truth. And I think like it can help people learn how to learn from their mistakes as well. You know, like if, like you said, for Ari Aster, he made two bangers and then he made something that wasn't as well received by audiences. He can learn from. I can go forward with it, and he can hopefully learn what went wrong in that one or what he needs to improve if there is anything. Maybe it just wasn't, I don't know, but just find your truth. Basically, that's the whole point of cinema is truth. Yeah, and just like what you like don't care what other people do. It's like what you like. Are you happy with that conclusion? I just like what you like. Now, that was a pretty heavy episode at times. It was it was a debate. And we're going to have these debates because there's there's a whole lot happening, good conversations to have in film at the moment. And we're two people who I think we agree on a lot of things, but maybe not everything. No, but I think that's what is great, is that we can just because we don't agree doesn't mean that I disrespect your opinion. It just means let's hear each other out. Yeah. Talk. You know, we we don't even have to agree at the end as long as we've heard you coaches talk. I respect why you like things. I respect what you don't like. Things like Blade Runner going get it. You say that. But I know in the future episode that you've got planned. And that's not respect, you fucker. No no no no no, we've got a couple of, real good slates coming up, I think. Yeah. For episode two, I'm really excited to go into 20, 25 with. Yeah. Okay. No, I don't want to leave the episode with that debate. I want to kind of acknowledge the fact that Christmas is less than a week away, where people are hearing this. It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas was the whole song. Oh, wait, everywhere you go, I mean an imminent emperor because the five and ten is glistening once again. You know, there's Tom and I's there the whole night. Two on me. They're gone. They're the words of the song. Jesus. I only did it because of the Christmas. Because is is a it's be like a fire. Oh version. It did you I said Chris right then it's like m oh is, was that's the way she sings it. It was more that's crazy. I genuinely when you made when you did that I was like, I thought we were just taking the piss. I didn't know you were doing that as a meme, but yeah, I did a meme. I did a mannequin. I don't want to be. I want the kids. That's all generation. You did that anyway. The whole thing I was going to say to leave it with is Sam quickfire. Are you ready? No. Quickfire. Are you kidding me? Have you not looked anything? Well, okay. I will genuinely answer this quickfire. How many are there? What we doing? The panic is a real, What is your Christmas movie? Top four. Top four. So I actually watched a Christmas film very, very recently with the kids. Home alone. Forgot how good it was, so. That's good. It's very, very good. So number one is How the Grinch Stole Christmas. Number two is It's Wonderful Life. I, I put it there. Number three is home alone, and number four is Christmas. When we're white magic at number. Just remember when I it get it a I could get through. And number four for me will be let's jingle all the way. You know animal, I have to have the jingle all the way. I think, to be fair, that's the first time that's been on anyone's top four, so that's nice all the way. All right. Yeah, you actually answer that pretty quickly. I agree with two of them. Yeah. How the Grinch Stole Christmas number one. Beautiful film. Cast member one. Home alone. Yes. Again. Like, there is a documentary on Netflix. It's called, like, How They Made It or something. And it's an episode dedicated to Home Alone, and it talks about all the stuff that they went through. I've seen the science behind it as well. I think it's almost done an episode on, like, could they say Robin's a dad? Yeah, yeah. I look at his head set on fire. They leave it to that in the second one as well. Like when he gets electrocuted and they just make him a skeleton. Oh yeah. It's it's like was very fucking bad obviously to those who I agree with. But then I'm gonna add love actually, which is just, oh can I change my fourth. No man. Quick. What I'm going to change before after AC it's it's characteristic for me. I'm a three remain the same but I gotta change before. But anyway let's see what your fourth is now changing. Jingle all the way to the back to let me just see what your fourth is. Because, I mean, you're not going to agree with that. What's it going to be? Holiday elf? Oh, no. The love actually number four. Okay, okay, I agree with that because you've taken jingle All the way out and I can respect that. But those four films for me are the ones I watch with my mom every Christmas Eve. Oh love it. Yeah. So it's kind of like a personal thing with it, but yeah, that's not yours. Audience. Beautiful listening people. And, let us know your thoughts on the whole star debate. And if you if you don't give a fuck about rating things one star and shit and on everybody's projects tell us, yeah, yeah, you don't leave this a one star review though. No. Yeah, right. This five stars. Yeah, right. Us five. We will tell Santa you've been nice. Very good, very good. You get all the presents and no coal in your stockings. Sam's. Apparently he has no access to Santa. That's how it works. I do, I do. We met Santa the other week, and I got freaked out. Just just just. I'll leave it there. Yeah. I hope you've enjoyed this episode. It's a little bit different from what we've done previously. Obviously, we had a bit more of, like a game show we type thing, but we didn't want everybody to get comfortable with that because that's not always going to be. We wanted to do something a bit different, and I like to surprise them because it's funny, genuinely stressed. I've got such a tension headache from that, just from that little quickfire. But it's. Well, yeah. But I will say next week we are doing a nice big 2024 review. And Phil. Yeah, we're going to talk about the highs, the lows, our favorites, our surprises. We don't want to keep it too negative. But again, we're allowed to dislike things. Some things we maybe didn't enjoy. And I very much look forward to just looking back on 2024 with a nice positive paint brush. Big episode. It's our last episode of 2024. Yeah, crazy. And then the episode after that, I believe we'll be looking ahead to 2025. What we're excited about big. Yeah, first episode of 2025 years. Let's let's look forward to a few things. Yeah, I know there's one thing already I'm really looking forward to is 28 years later. But we'll get into that in 20. Yeah, we can talk again in a couple of weeks time kind of wait. So yes. Good. And then 2025 is just this, oh, we're so open to to so many I can't wait. Basically I'm very, really, really excited for where this goes in 2025. Yeah, we have so many ideas and yeah happy for you to join us along the way. Yeah, obviously in order to do that, give us a follow on your favorite podcast episode or episode, directory, what they called hosts. Jesus would love to start that again. No, I'm going to keep all of my next to sin. Yeah. Follow us on Apple or, Spotify because of the other places we're on. Follow us on TikTok. We are actually on there. We haven't posted anything, but you can follow us. Follow us on blue Sky. Oh, yeah. I need to put out the cover of. I'm a couple episodes behind on blue Sky. I'm not going to promote the other one, but if you want to follow us there as well, you are welcome to. Yeah, you probably know what it is. Yeah, well, I might post on there, I will say, and, make sure you leave us a shining review, not just tell us where you think. Have you got criticism for us? Obviously. Tell us that we appreciate it. It helps us, learn us. Why? You don't like Sam? It's fine. We get it. Tell us why you love me. I it's understandable, you know, fits and letterbox as well. We are individually on there. You can follow sentiment sound mapping. We are in juke and we have all of our beautiful reviews on there. I need to actually review more because I've just been putting stars. But I will start, right? Yes, I need to start down obviously doing that as well. Yeah we will. We promised before 2025, new new year, new us. We're still getting the wraps up for 2025. Okay. But for now, if you celebrate Merry Christmas. Other very, very Merry Christmas. Enjoy. Don't give me families don't care. We families. Happy holidays. Okay. What people do? They hate the families. Would you do it just because you have a nice family? Sorry. Oh, sorry, I just. I'm sorry. Merry Christmas. If you celebrate that, don't kill your families just like that. To to the right people. That's going to make full sense. Okay. Fair enough that I did. I obviously was not the right person for that. You're just like, oh yeah. Look, my family, everyone was like, oh my God. But yeah, thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate it. And with that, we will bid you adieu. Merry Christmas got.